And yet I think MS is the one letting journalists go hands on, or off if you will, with the hardware. I haven't seen any reports of Sony letting journalists play with theirs yet, maybe those are just lagging though.

Well, I'm sure we'll eventually get to the point where most of what was on that Youtube link is a reality, but I can't see the technology being even close to that yet, especially when it comes to that insta-scan stuff.

A year ago in Australia I did play a controllerless fighting game where a camera put me up on the screen and I fought a character. However, it was very 2D and the camera had trouble tracking movement unless you took your shoes off and had white socks. Dark shoes didn't work and if you weren't as, um, pale as me the game didn't register a lot of the punches.

Granted that was a year ago, but I think Sony's trying to broaden their base with fantasy at this point.

Whoops....major faux pas on my part. I mixed up the links. I should have said that Microsoft, with its sci-fi "project Natal" is living in a fantasy world.

Sony seems to at least be demonstrating technology that is arriving sometime soon.

(*phew*, narrowly escaped that flaming)

On that same point, a well known Illuminati project is the "birth" of a one-world currency, and Ain't It Cool News reports that Peter Molyneux is a 64th degree Mason. Is the name "Natal" a coincidence, Microsoft?

My prediction is the Sony motion controller comes out by christmas and get no software support.

My other prediciton is we never hear of the Microsoft motion control again.

Maybe I am just overly biased because I hate motion controls.

Seriously whats with everyone bashing on natal when all we saw is a glimpse, and now everybody thinks they know whats gonna happen in years to come.Its like when your making an article on a subject on Fidgit it must be neutral, now look at this dude who is practically spitting on Microsoft when all he saw is a 2min footage.... I come on this website to look out gaming news not opinion.

Let me guess, MS didn't invite you to sit at the cool kid's table, did they Tom?

Funny how the bloggers who weren't allowed to play, throw around so much hate, where as sites like G4, IGN and Engadget who actually tried it out, are saying "Holy crap, this thing actually works."

Yah I was about to say....
Get your facts straight, sources from the above stated sites (IGN, G4, etc.), have actually played with natal and it does work.....Its not all fantasy like you all seem to think.

No one is saying Natal doesn't work at all, it just works pretty poorly and has limited gaming potential compared to the PSMC. Peter Moleneux even admits Milo is literally being driven by a developer during these hands on events and is full of "tricks". So it works, just with high latency, and very low demonstrated precision. Their biggest real game demo is for Burnout, only why wouldn't you just use a controller? Being empty handed offers no advantage and will just tire out your arms very quickly.

"My prediction is the Sony motion controller comes out by christmas and get no software support."

Sony said Spring 2010 is their target. I'm sure there will be software support because it will be so easy to port motion control from Wii versions. Voila: HD, motion controlled versions of Tiger Woods, tennis games, party games, etc, etc. One of the biggest middleware providers for motion control on the Wii has already announced support for the PSMC system.

Wow.. do you have ADD? The guys said over and over it was not final, it should be obvious it is still in it's early stages good lord, no common sense at all.

Microsoft's goal at E3 was to distract you from the reality. And the reality is they suck balls. Their OS was a laughing stock last year, the Zune is useless and the 360 has so many hardware problems you have to be an idiot to actually think this would work on it.

Microsoft said they would not be showing charts and graphics throughout their presentation, maybe because they are ashamed at their own product. The 360 is still being outsold by the PS2. Not to mention their line up was pathetic. Microsoft can only produce crappy Halo spin offs? Oh no there is Forza 2 that is leaps and bounds better than GranTurismo right?? LOL! Talk about feeling sorry for a guy on stage, him saing that took to cake.

I think Natal will just be ignored. The people with 360s said it themselves when PlayStation HOME came out. They all said if they wanted to chat with virtual avatars they would get Second Life or WOW. Remember that? So now all of a sudden chatting to a virtual avatar is now cool because it is on the 360?

Sony's controls looked like they could really amount to something, a step up from what the Wii is doing. Gamers will always want controls just like they will always want a hard copy of their media. Can you imagine playing a FPS with your hands making the typical gun shape as if you were playing rock paper scissors? That seriously would suck. When you think it through like that you begin to see the problems out weighing the good. And I think no other company more than Microsoft should know "the path to hell was paved on 'good intentions" just look at their charts.

Project Natal looks pretty much worthless at this point. Does anyone really want to paint some very imprecise (crappy) scenary or an elephant or anything else for that matter? I mean what are you going to do with all those drawings, send them to your friends who are using the console for what it was designed for (playing Gears of War)?

And I hate navigating through the dashboard already, I don't think moving past the numerous ads with my fingers is going to be any more enjoyable.

Also they really should have just saved their time/money and not hired Peter Molyneux to narrate their presentation and just posted a disclaimer at the bottom saying "this technology doesn't work nearly as well as we say it does. And if it ever does function at this level that we're saying it does, it will most likely not debut on this generation of the Xbox". Because it's pretty much the same thing.

I don't know, Microsoft just didn't show off anything that looked like it would function well in an actual gaming environment.

Whereas Sony pretty much blew me away with their presentation. I can completely imagine using that in a myriad of ways. Anything from RTS' to third person action games to FPS' (which by the way, how would you use Project Natal for any shooter on the 360, hold your hand out like it's a gun and make gunfire noises, cause I doubt it's sensitive enough to see you doing a pulling-the-trigger movement).

Plus I'd love to see people drawing/writing stuff into levels of LittleBigPlanet or any other create, share, etc games.

"Plus I'd love to see people drawing/writing stuff into levels of LittleBigPlanet or any other create, share, etc games."

Good point. It would be fabulous for LBP and Modnation racer and games like it. Developers would be well advised to include support for the PSMC in their creation tools.

I've had a go on Natal - playing Burnout Paradise - and it actually works really well, hoses all over the Wii controls. How it measures up against the Sony ones only time will tell, but in all honesty idk how you can think theirs was better.

Maybe it works.

But the picture at the top of the article looks like lots of severe accidents waiting to happen.
And with the wooden floor and a couch table possibly to the side...
I see lots of broken ribs and fractured skulls.

The bias in this article is so thick it makes it hard to read
Whether or not Ricochet looked fun, it was a demonstration that showed when a person moved their hand or leg or head in some direction, the x box recognized it, and I can't believe Tom Chick had the balls to imply that what Microsoft has done, and what Peter Molyneux has done aren't really new and amazing

Obviously the paint thing doesn't look very fun, but I saw no "sloppiness," and you completely ignored the fact that within this D E M O (of something that still has upwards 2 more years of development) it tracked where he threw the paint perfectly and exactly what color he said.
Ricochet seemed okay, the paint seemed useless, but they were to show what the camera was capable of and obviously there wont be anything too spectacular made because, as Kudo said at the conference, they were just releasing the development tools to their partners that day. Of course, they did give it to Peter Molyneux, who made Milo, who (regardless of your fore mentioned "creepiness") was able to have a dynamic conversation with Clair (and Cliff Blezinski and the people at Joystiq). That is amazing with the amount of time he had and I am disappointed that someone acting as a journalist on behalf of Fidgit would carry such a strong bias for Sony

Sony's presentation was amazing and between Microsoft and Sony, the Wii will have a run for its money trying to hold down its market. I carry no bias for Microsoft. I don't own a PS3 but I am pumped for Sony's controllers. They obviously have the intent to apply this technology with worthwhile games (which Nintendo has been, for the most part, unable to provide), but their motion tracking didn't show extra precision in comparison to Natal, especially since Natal has a couple of years to improve and that it can accomplish all of this without some controller to track.
This article completely undermined the excitement and impressiveness of Natal through an unwavering bias for Sony that led Microsoft's new, yet amazing technology to seem like something they threw together the day before and plan to release the day after
Please report on things with slightly more accuracy, because someone who solely read your article would not have the same picture of the Microsoft press conference as those who watched it.

Well from what I can find video-wise I can see why Tom would favour the PS3 more. In that RPG type setting though in the demo, what if I wanted to walk forward? Do I have to push a button to get out of archery/sword fighting mode and then aim both sticks forward or something? What if I want to move and block and swing? The dude in the demo said something about physical controls so I hope they get that covered, because if they do AND if they get some actual decent games instead of gimmicks I would snap a PS3 up.

As much as I enjoy my 360, but I agree with Steiner and Brad - the Xbox one just doesn't seem tangible or atleast practical. How does the camera know whats your body and what's the sofa? On stage under proper lighting that masks out the background sure it worked. How the hell do you move forward in a game on that one?? Atleast the PS3 has something for the camera to pick up. And as for that concept advert! Could they get anymore twee?

Also people often complain that Tom has a biased towards microsoft rather than sony (see killzone 2, infamous etc). I'm not having a go, I just think it's amusing that one of the only times he seems more interested in sony he's biased.

Now I'm off to read more and keep my mind open to anything that could change my mind.

I can see it now. Some perv is going to hack into it and alter their image so that they can chat with young girls or boys. Oohh...a new Chris Hansen episode of "To Catch a Predator".....

OH NOES! TOM CHIXOR TRICKED US INTO THINKING HE WAS A 360 FANBOY WITH HIS KILLZONE2/10 STUPID THINGS ABOUT INfamOUS POSTS SO HE COULD GO EPIC FLAMEOUT ON NATAL! T3H DEVIOUSNISS!

As far as controls go, although it wasn't featured in their press conference, Microsoft has detailed that there is a third party company working on a motion controller, and that the company has known about Natal for quite a while now.
This will hopefully ensure that we will still be able to play our favorite games that will inevitably require buttons
Natal isn't capable of allowing us to play halo or gears, but before revealing Natal they did discuss briefly that the controller and being able to use it well is something that allows most hardcore gamers to feel like they have some ability or worth above non-hardcore types.
Currently, completely getting rid of controllers is very impractical, yes, but Microsoft understands that and there is a controller well on the way.

In regards to it understanding what is us and what is the sofa, Microsoft has detailed a little behind the technology, and what sets it apart form the eye toy, which did have some of these problems, is this technology.

They eye-toy read what it was receiving as a 2d image, and had decent technology to recognize what was the human shape after calibrating. Natal not only has this level of RGB color recognition, but also reads into 3D depth, allowing it to separate you from your background by knowing that you are at a very different distance than the things around you.

Many people found issue in their Natal trailer, which everyone is calling a fantasy and over ambitions, but it was merely a trailer meant to give an idea as to the possibilities of Natal, and they are ambitions but not impossible from what we've seen from the live demo.

It also seems that everyone hates Ricochet, the anti-dodge ball game. While it isn't a blockbuster title (or a title worth paying for at all), the point was to demonstrate what Natal can already do. Just by watching we saw that it mirrored all her movements and, unlike Wii or PS3, recognized when she moved forward and backward. This furthers the point the Natal does have depth mapping which helps to separate you from other things. Ricochet won't be that fun, but it seems like it will be a free thing that comes with Natal, and does demonstrate their current capabilities.

We must also take into consideration that they are current capabilities, and Natal still has a lot of time to be released and that developers have now been given the tools to work with it so that something good might be at hand when Natal finally comes out.

I don't see why people are truly unhappy with the performance of Natal at E3, seeing as they did have live demos to show that it already works to a great extent, and on a personal level I don't see how you can be completely unimpressed by Milo, who functioned perfectly fine, and although isn't picture perfect AI, is still VERY impressive for a few month's work.

Natal has great potential and I don't see where the idea that NOTHING can be done with it is coming from. Although Kudo's avatar did flip out when more complex motions were done, Natal is still a baby and is still very accurate and percise, as seen in ricochet and (crappy) paint-thing (yes the paint thing looks lame but it shows accuracy and voice recognition well).

On the PS3 side of things, this could very well push me over the edge to finally buy one. I've wanted to for a long time, but have been more interested in buying games than new consoles, but between MAG, ModNation Racers, and their better-than-Wii motion controls, I think I finally might, and Sony was at a stage in development with its technology to be able to show how it could be applicable to real titles, but it would be much appreciated if we all stopped pretending that with game developers at work, Microsoft won't be able to apply Natal to good titles, because it wouldn't be hard, especially with a corresponding button system on the way.

Either way, if Nintendo doesn't get in gear and start working, within four years Microsoft and Sony could easily rip their market right out from under them because Nintendo is making gimmicks and are too wrapped up in the novelty value of their own invention, even two years after its release.

So here's to great games from Sony AND Microsoft in the coming years of their motion control magic

Surprised to see a lot of people thinking Sony's stuff somehow looked better than MS's. Looked pretty horrendous to me.

At the end of the day, though, I think both companies are showing desperation at trying to catch up to Nintendo (impossible) and both of their technologies are going to be flash in the pan gimmicks that won't affect really affect gaming on either system. And that's fine because I really have no need for motion controls, I can handle a gamepad just fine.

Kafer you have surely written the longest comment I've seen on this site, and an interesting one it was too. My hat goes off to you.

Chijts: Thank you

Neuromancer: You obviously didn't watch Sony's press conference (or if you did you were slightly distracted by all the led paint chips you were eating) because simply in their demo they showed more ability to apply their technology to good games than Nintendo has in their entire Wii career. They are as precise as Wii will be once you BUY Wii motion plus, and it will be really easy to beat Nintendo because they are doing absolutely nothing noteworthy with their technology.
I've had a Wii since they were released and my excitement has dwindled since day one.

Woops, that "Anonymous" above this is me, totally spaced on the name and email part

The Microsoft NATAL is not a controller. Why do people keep calling it a controller? There is no controller. The PS3 thing wasn't that impressive, so what if the ball lights up a certain color? You won't be paying attention to that while you're playing a video game. Btw this site needs a better CAPTCHA system. I'm tired of entering the correct letters and numbers and having to redo it.

I saw Sony's press conference, and the minute I saw the motion controls and the devs having a hard time talking (and any other normal person would as they weren't the typical Gamestop-like PR Spokesholes that can typically come out) I knew at least one writer had to make fun of it. And here we are. Granted, they do seem to have very precise controlling at hand, but initially it looked like Sony was saying:

"Oh crap, Microsoft unveiled their motion controls in a complete marketing campaign, we gotta play catchup. Quick, get those damn engineers ready to talk on stage and wrap up what they've been working on in their basement dungeon; don't forget to take their balls and chains off, and for godsakes get them some decent shirts and slacks!! And spray them down, we don't want the audience smelling what's it's like to be without a shower for a month! Don't worry about the controllers, we won't let them focus on the fact that they look like glowing adult toys."

All in all, once they got over their fear of social interaction with a huge studio audience, the lack of ability to actually hit things while swinging wildly was a comical display and actually got the crowd laughing, which eased the engineers into showing the bread & butter dev displays which was the RTS possibilities and the throwing stars/sword/bow & arrow combat displays.

God of War 3 was awesome, but a given property just like Halo is for MS when it comes to selling games and consoles. GT 5 was basically a big "yaawwwwn", just like Forza 3. I mean, didn't that game already come out? Oh wait, that's right, that was Prologue, a "sneak peak" at GT 5. Perhaps we'll see a Prologue 2 and 3 before GT 5.

At least Forza 3 though will be out before the currrent console generation has expired. GT 5 will be done in about 5 years because Kazanori will want to add the ability to add pictures of your PSN Home Avatar driving the car while sacraficing actual realistic gameplay like vehicle damage and engine swaps and online play.

The last guardian had astounding graphics, and a downright creepy creature. There's something to be said about playing out the fantasies of a crazed Japanese developer that loves little boys as icons. He goes well with Peter Molyneux.

MAG was awesome in theory. But somehow I fail to see how any "gamer" is going to get 128 other gamers to actually coordinate a strategic attack when I see how these same people currently play games that have 16-32 players only.

Uncharted looked extremely fun, graphics were phenomenal (although a hind being unable to shoot through a desk with a nose-tipped chaingun was a bit hard to swallow.)

MGS carrying on yet again on portable, extreme waste of a good talent and time.

I will say that Sony was extremely proud to be able to unveil FF XIV as an exclusive as the entire crowd was like "whaaaaaaa?" Whether or not it lives up to anything outside of Japan will remain to be seen. FFXIII looked like a typical movie of bad lines and horrible wacky japanese idealized characters out of an anime interspliced with boring turn based combat that has nothing to do whatsoever with the movie, errr I mean game.

Mr. Kafer, I must reluctantly disagree with your assessment of my eating of "led paint chips," just because you don't share my opinion that the Sony tech demo looked like ass.

Although the idea of Light Emitting Diode paint is actually pretty awesome.

okay, fair enough, I accidentally typed led instead of lead
(and yes, they would be amazing)

I don't have much to say, and I don't feel like scrolling back up to note who I am happen to be referring to in my following comments, but here we go.

The Wii, the PS3, and XBOX 360 have presented us with completely different wireless technologies.
In the order of effectiveness, we have the Wii, then the PS3, and finishing off with the XBOX 360. The Wii takes 1st only because it has been a proven console, we have yet to test these other technologies nor have they been applied to any physical games yet.

How are they different you might wonder though, although to me the answer was obvious. The Wii starts at a pivot and points a direct beam at the Wii's sensor that is placed either below or above the user's television. The controls act as most of the button and analog functions do with some small motion features acted upon by the shaking of the remote or attached nun chuck accordingly.
The PlayStation 3, much like the standard PS3 controller, developed a, and I will QUOTE THIS, "PROTOTYPE REMOTE" which applies the SIXAXIS technology. So this technology for the remote to move in the real world identically to the virtual has already been done. The neat side, is the features applied with the "PROTOTYPE" eyetoy-like PS3 hardware being developed for the console in conjunction with the "PROTOTYPE" Remote. The performance was backed with many situations in a acute accuracy, but does not show proof as of yet. We will have to wait to get our sweaty hands all over it.

And lastly the 360. Impressive technology, but with a fault. I see progress, but not without a brick wall. This is applying what has already been reached by the eyetoy on the PS2. There's no problem with that, were it not for the problems with the eyetoy for the PS2. Depth perception was it's major issue, without a controller to pinpoint ones location in a more finite accuracy, it had issues in detecting the player. Granted, similar to the PS3, this Natal technology is a work in progress. Even more so, they have not had as much time to work on this new project, Sony has both experience and a head start ahead of them. The impressive voice recognition is promising, but again will have to wait for testing before a proper diagnosis can be reached.

I apologize for any points I have missed, I watched all the videos and did plenty of research before writing this, but I am human after all. If you find such problems, just list them right below and I'll hold no grudge against thine soul(s).

As far as easy integration between Wii titles or even other games, that is a dream. The eyetoy games were made for the eyetoy. The Wii allows other controllers for the games that will "NOT" work and has buttons to work games anyway. While the technology is cool, to be used in a game in such a present state is unrealistic. Think about how hard it was to get The Orange Box to work on the PS3. Not because it was a bad console, but Valve was unfamiliar with how it worked so they asked EA to do the developing for it. After a good wait, it plays just as well.

Secondly, even after the conversion between consoles, assuming the companies are willing to recreate another version for each console, it wouldn't play in the same format due to the differences mentioned between the remotes as mentioned above. I will not support a company for something they have not shown us yet. One could say that the Wii is going to make a virtual room that you can walk around in freely. The room rotates in a circular motion so the position of the room never moves. And there's a screen on the walls so you can face any direction...but, that is stupid to assume. I know that is an extreme measure, but what's to say the 360 will have a remote. Nowhere, besides these posts, have I found such evidence. And say they were to have it, who knows how it would turn out. The Wii doesn't have SIXAXIS, but it works pretty well. The PS3 "new" remote does not have a sensor bar to detect when the remote is pointing in it's direction. The top/bottom is determined by one side directed by the physical Matrix the device is located in whilst playing the PS3. In other words, it can detect whatever angle it is at due to the SIXAXIS technology.

I am not bashing any console. I will admit, I am a SONY lover and have such owned every PlayStation product with exception to the PSP. I also share a certain "meh,,," attitude towards the 360. But, I am in no way ignorant. I think both new technologies are promising. In there own ways, they have different focuses pointed towards there individual companies success. There will be a close war coming up in the next few years. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they have to pick up the pace because this technology is "completely" new. But, they do tend to come up on top in there own little way. I don't think any console will fall short, but first-party games are going to become a major focus unless select companies want to go crazy to match up to these new devices.

Keep in mind, these are not primary controllers. They are an accessory and although impressively powerful in us being like "Holy Cow!", don't go throwing out your old controllers just because it looks cool. There is no way Halo can be played without a controller. There is no way Killzone can be played without a controller. And there is no way Super Smash Brothers could ever be played without a controller. A controller of some sorts, short of full-blown virtual reality, will always be a necessity when it comes to video games.

Consoles Unite!?...Not a chance

I don't have much to say, and I don't feel like scrolling back up to note who I am happen to be referring to in my following comments, but here we go.

The Wii, the PS3, and XBOX 360 have presented us with completely different wireless technologies.
In the order of effectiveness, we have the Wii, then the PS3, and finishing off with the XBOX 360. The Wii takes 1st only because it has been a proven console, we have yet to test these other technologies nor have they been applied to any physical games yet.

How are they different you might wonder though, although to me the answer was obvious. The Wii starts at a pivot and points a direct beam at the Wii's sensor that is placed either below or above the user's television. The controls act as most of the button and analog functions do with some small motion features acted upon by the shaking of the remote or attached nun chuck accordingly.
The PlayStation 3, much like the standard PS3 controller, developed a, and I will QUOTE THIS, "PROTOTYPE REMOTE" which applies the SIXAXIS technology. So this technology for the remote to move in the real world identically to the virtual has already been done. The neat side, is the features applied with the "PROTOTYPE" eyetoy-like PS3 hardware being developed for the console in conjunction with the "PROTOTYPE" Remote. The performance was backed with many situations in a acute accuracy, but does not show proof as of yet. We will have to wait to get our sweaty hands all over it.

And lastly the 360. Impressive technology, but with a fault. I see progress, but not without a brick wall. This is applying what has already been reached by the eyetoy on the PS2. There's no problem with that, were it not for the problems with the eyetoy for the PS2. Depth perception was it's major issue, without a controller to pinpoint ones location in a more finite accuracy, it had issues in detecting the player. Granted, similar to the PS3, this Natal technology is a work in progress. Even more so, they have not had as much time to work on this new project, Sony has both experience and a head start ahead of them. The impressive voice recognition is promising, but again will have to wait for testing before a proper diagnosis can be reached.

I apologize for any points I have missed, I watched all the videos and did plenty of research before writing this, but I am human after all. If you find such problems, just list them right below and I'll hold no grudge against thine soul(s).

As far as easy integration between Wii titles or even other games, that is a dream. The eyetoy games were made for the eyetoy. The Wii allows other controllers for the games that will "NOT" work and has buttons to work games anyway. While the technology is cool, to be used in a game in such a present state is unrealistic. Think about how hard it was to get The Orange Box to work on the PS3. Not because it was a bad console, but Valve was unfamiliar with how it worked so they asked EA to do the developing for it. After a good wait, it plays just as well.

Secondly, even after the conversion between consoles, assuming the companies are willing to recreate another version for each console, it wouldn't play in the same format due to the differences mentioned between the remotes as mentioned above. I will not support a company for something they have not shown us yet. One could say that the Wii is going to make a virtual room that you can walk around in freely. The room rotates in a circular motion so the position of the room never moves. And there's a screen on the walls so you can face any direction...but, that is stupid to assume. I know that is an extreme measure, but what's to say the 360 will have a remote. Nowhere, besides these posts, have I found such evidence. And say they were to have it, who knows how it would turn out. The Wii doesn't have SIXAXIS, but it works pretty well. The PS3 "new" remote does not have a sensor bar to detect when the remote is pointing in it's direction. The top/bottom is determined by one side directed by the physical Matrix the device is located in whilst playing the PS3. In other words, it can detect whatever angle it is at due to the SIXAXIS technology.

I am not bashing any console. I will admit, I am a SONY lover and have such owned every PlayStation product with exception to the PSP. I also share a certain "meh,,," attitude towards the 360. But, I am in no way ignorant. I think both new technologies are promising. In there own ways, they have different focuses pointed towards there individual companies success. There will be a close war coming up in the next few years. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they have to pick up the pace because this technology is "completely" new. But, they do tend to come up on top in there own little way. I don't think any console will fall short, but first-party games are going to become a major focus unless select companies want to go crazy to match up to these new devices.

Keep in mind, these are not primary controllers. They are an accessory and although impressively powerful in us being like "Holy Cow!", don't go throwing out your old controllers just because it looks cool. There is no way Halo can be played without a controller. There is no way Killzone can be played without a controller. And there is no way Super Smash Brothers could ever be played without a controller. A controller of some sorts, short of full-blown virtual reality, will always be a necessity when it comes to video games.

Consoles Unite!?...Not a chance

Sorry for the double post. Please delete one if possible

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