>Without any segue or distinction, Capps conflates renting games with pirating them.

Well, they might as well be the same from his perspective: they both amount to people playing his games without him getting any money for the work of creating it. Are they actually the same act? Hardly, and I don't think he's trying to say that. I think what he's saying is that piracy killed Epic's desire to be in the PC market, and game rentals/used games sales is also something they're trying to fight, because even one person who buys new rather than used equals money in Epic's pocket. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it makes good sense for the business that Epic is trying to make money in.

If they jumped from buying used games to pirating, I'd see the point *from their point of view* in that they get nothing from you whether you pirate or buy used.

But I have to think that BlockBuster and Gamefly buy an awful lot of copies of their games at launch, no?

It's Gamestop that's screwing it up for everyone (IMO of course). They buy games back for a trivial price, then charge a lot for the used product. I don't know why gamers keep letting themselves be abused by Gamestop.

Replace "video game" with "music" and this could have come right out of an RIAA press release.

I always love the rationale of 'we don't make any money on used copies sold'.....no shit. You already made your money when it sold the first time. It's almost like a sense of entitlement.

Hey, I just realized something: I also don't make any money when Gamestop sells a used copy of Gears of War! This is an injustice and must be stopped.

I can understand getting upset over piracy, but used games? C'mon man. That's like an author getting bent out of shape over the existence of libraries. It sure doesn't do them any favors.

I have the strongest urge never to buy another Epic game new right about now. (Though, to be fair, I think the only Epic games I own are various UTs and if I bought them new, it was on steep, steep discount, so I've never been that good of a customer of theirs.)

31.5 million people have played Crysis? That seems awfully high for a niche (because of requirements) computer game.

Maybe if publishers would make a better product or, heaven forbid, lower the price on their product, we as gamers wouldn't have to rent a game to see if it's any good or buy the game used to save a couple of bucks.

If developers want to throw in extras for people who buy the game new, that's their right. It's a marketing ploy, and if you care about the extras, buy the game new. Problem solved. It's no different than pre-order bonus items lots of games currently do. Epic has a right (and indeed, almost an obligation) to fight for as many sales as they can. That's how they make money.

On the other hand, getting bent out of shape over used sales is idiotic. When you sell your car to a used car dealer and they turn around and sell it to a new owner, the original manufacturers gets nothing. That's the nature of merchandise. Epic is no more entitled to a piece of that pie than gamers who buy a game used are entitled to perks included with a new copy of the game.

I think Mr. Capps can't specifically name the source of game developer's problems with used games. It isn't players at all. Players absolutely have the right to buy and sell their used games.

What developers hate is that the #2 game retailer in the U.S. is a fucking pawnshop that screws customers and developers both. They give customers $15 for a game that they will resell for $45 the second the door closes behind you. No matter how low publishers and developers drop their prices the pawnshop will ALWAYS undercut us.

Buy and sell your games directly from/to other gamers. Use Ebay and Craigslist. This will force the #2 retailer to order and sell more new product (y'know like a normal store behaves).

Typically the pawnshop sells used recent games for $5 off of full retail. Keep your eye on Target, Wallmart, and Best Buy ads (and Fry's if you have one nearby), you can often match/beat the used discount for a new product and support developers.

Support game developers and not the pawnshop, that's all we're asking.

I don't see how this "Pawn Shop" is screwing over customers. It's not like they hide the fact they buy the games for a low price and the sell it for a higher price. Its not like they buy the game from you then run it across the street and try to resell it to you for more money.

If game developers made games that people actually wanted to keep and not sell after playing them for a week then this wouldn't be a problem.

Stop making shot shitty non-replayable games and people will stop selling them. Of course you could just figure out how to put a restrictive DRM on console games but we all see how well that is working for the PC industry.

Bloody whiners.....I'm surprised their not asking congress and the president for a 25 billion dollar bailout to soothe their wounded egos.

"I don't see how this "Pawn Shop" is screwing over customers."
Well, if you sold it yourself and cut out the middleman, you'd be taking home an extra $20-30.

Then when they sell it to someone else, they take $5 off the full retail price, making themselves ~$30. Then they try to sell you a protection policy in case of disc defect, so you're saving even less. Then if you actually try and return a damaged disc, good luck.

What's next, book companies trying to shut down secondhand book stores? Ford taking a stand against used car lots? Levi's raiding hospice shops, because they "don't make any money" if someone buys their jeans used?

Ridiculous.

jeez, what a douche!

by that reasoning, gm is going under because they do not make a profit when I trade in my 15 year old beater.

they've killed the pc market when they started making games you can only play on developers own machines.

so... i can pay a couple thou' to buy a new computer just to play a game, or wait a couple years for the price to go down - will crysis still be the best game 2 years from now? doubt it. hell, gonna play duke nukem forever before i can play an epic game.

anyway.., wasnt the success behind Starcraft that it worked on 90% of the (then) current computers. hell, you can still find (and they do sell) some gold pack bundles at the local store. not bad for a 10 year old game.

sorry for the long rant.

ps: someone might want to let mike know: all the local trade-in game shops have BINS full of console games, but barely anything for pc. from what i saw the ratio is around 5 pc games to a BIN full of console games.

Garth Brooks and some of the music artists had this same cry about used CDs back before even downloadable music was a big deal. Didn't work out for them, either.

If they really want to stop used game sales, the answer is digital distribution for the next gen ala Steam. Hard to sell something off a hard drive. But if that's the model, make prices more reasonable since the distributor is cutting a lot of costs out of the chain by not having to physically make, ship, inventory, and sell the item at a store.

I'm with you Andy, but the problems with Steam is that they still insist on Region coding the games. I'm in Australia and very frequently new release games in steam are not available in Australia. I wish the producers would also realise that it is a Global market and global release dates are not just convenient but should be compulsory.

Funny, I just posted something on this exact same topic. Considering how many other ways there are to make money off games these days, it is really unfortunate that used games are seen as such a blight on the industry.

Epic should research how to attached a coin slot to their games so they can charge users by the minute or by lives. Wait, no, I'm just kidding. Really. Don't do this.

1. Very few players have an unlimited stash of money. By buying used games (usually a half a year or more after they come out, thereby making the price less than just $5 off new retail) we are exposed to games we might otherwise not be exposed to. That makes us more likely to buy a game from a publisher or in a series that we might not before. Would Epic prefer I buy one game used and one game new or just not buy any of their games at all?

2. I understand rewarding the people who buy new games. I honestly do. You're adding value to their purchase (and at $60 that's a GOOD thing). But if you're doing it to spite Gamestop or used game buyers that's dumb. Offer that extra map or level for sale on XBLive or PSN. The new buyers get it for free. The used buyers get it at a price and the company gets $5/$10 more than what they would have before.

3. Why complain about Gametap or similar online retailers? Doesn't Epic have a say in if their game is offered through such a service?

4. Where else are we going to get out-of-print games? The online services and used games are the only place for that.

Long and rambly, I know. But this whole thing is silly. Video game companies have done nothing but profit from me being able to buy used games. I don't know how many times I've gone in with a few games and come out with one I wouldn't otherwise been able to afford. More than one of those new purchases has been inspired by buying a used game from the same company/developer/creator previously.

Also... "Epic artists don't used games..." or what? I doubt you fire them because that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. So you don't let them sit with you at lunch? What are you, twelve?

I'm going to wait and buy GOW2 used just out of spite.

CAPCOM and others publishers in Japan tried and successfully got a regional law passed that banned the sale of used games (I have several games with the special logo on the back expressly forbidding the game being sold as used). It was overturned a short time later. Complaining and legislating didn't work there and wouldn't work here.

There best bet is to continue what they're doing; that is to offer something special to new game buyers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Gamefly is buying hundreds of games at a time, maybe even thousands. It's not as if that money isn't finding it's way into Epic's coffers. In fact, I'm going to guess Gamefly is probably one of Epic's biggest customers. When you've got Gamefly offering $6.95 holiday intro prices you've got people signing up in droves and playing games. Then they talk about those games and generate a buzz and the more buzz the more interest and the more interest the more sales. Gamefly is getting games into people's hands that might not otherwise get them and those people talk talk talk and that's good business. Epic ought to send them a thank you note.

In this economy its deluded to think everyone can just go out a fork over $60 a pop on new games. Particularly when there's really only a handful that end up living up to the sticker price.

The gaming industry is the ONLY industry I've heard whining about this and it makes me even more pleased to have my Gamefly account. I play a good 40 games a year for what it would cost me to buy 4. Kind of a no brainer in a recession. Kind of a no brainer regardless.

Is there a rule at Epic about buying used cars. I'm sure Ford and the other big automotive makers don't make money off of used car sales. What about previously owned homes? How much do contractors make off of those sales? Get over it Epic. I will be sure to buy a used copy of Gears 2 now. Of course I will rent it first.

really...? well you know here's a bit of logic... if the games were slightly cheap ($10 -$20) ALOT more would be inclined to buy them... hence the fact that people buy used games because... (drum roll) THEY ARE CHEAPER... FTW?!!?!

this game is hot

I dunno... If your game is hitting the batgain bin that fast, then it should tell ya something.

I never really did like the first Gears. The failed 360 hardware didn't give the game a second chance...

Not like it matters, they made their money.