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Angry nerd worried about the Tyranids in Dawn of War 2
Relic has posted an official Dawn of War 2 trailer showing off various Tyranids in action. I don't see a single thing in this video that couldn't have been done in the original Dawn of War engine, which belies the traditional Relic line that they were waiting until they had a game engine that could do Tyranids right. To me, that line of reasoning implied crazy numbers of swarming bugs filling the screen like a latest-gen version of the infamous Starcraft Zerg mission ten years ago. You remember that one, right? The Space Marines – I mean, Terrans – had fifteen minutes to build up a base, at which point an impossible onslaught of Zergs flooded onto the screen. That was mind-blowing back then, before every other RTS did the same thing. I presumed Relic was waiting until they could do that sort of thing with the Tyranids. But in their Tyranid debut video, I don't think I ever counted more than a dozen on screen at once.
Furthermore, this Gamespot write up of the Liepzig demo of a Tyranid mission just reinforces my concern that the Dawn of War sequel will play like an action RPG (see #5 here). Recovering health by capturing points on the map? Manually moving individual marines through mines and around attackers? A boss battle? Story-driven events scattered throughout the game?
And the following guff about the Tyranid "hive mind" AI is different from any old tactical AI how?
[The Company of Heroes] engine…is now being used to power the "hive mind" behaviors of the tyranids. Packs of smaller tyranid units may descend upon you like a swarm of insects, while more developed patrols may be led by a psychically powerful tyrant unit that connects weaker units to the larger "synapse" intelligence. Both types of behavior unfold as described, and along with spore mines--essentially, living, floating bombs that explode on contact with a concussive blast--they make for an enemy that can be both slow and menacing but startlingly fast.I'm glad we're getting Tyranids, but I fail to see how any of this wouldn't have worked before. Anyway, I don't want to sound like an angry nerd pounding on his keyboard because the developer is desecrating his favorite game by not making the sequel JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL. Because as a fan of sci-fi games in general and Relic in particular, I'm looking forward to whatever Dawn of War 2 turns out to be. But as a fan of real time strategy games in general and the original Dawn of War in particular, I'm worried that a) the sequel is straying too far from the original and b) that the Tyranids won't be as special as Relic has led us to believe they need to be.
By Trent Polack at 11:34 AM ON 08/22/08
These are the exact same kinds of concerns I've had about Dawn of War 2 and, upon the news of the Tyranids, the lack of Tyranid masses in the promotional videos. I'm guessing that Relic is trying to move Dawn of War 2 away from Dawn of War's original fantastic gameplay and leave the RTSness of the game in the hands of Company of Heroes and the inevitable Company of Heroes 2.
But I can't say I'm a huge fan of what I've heard about Dawn of War 2.
By salwon at 4:55 PM ON 08/22/08
I think you're looking at this in the wrong way - maybe Relic's trailer technology isn't equipped to show off all the units that will be on screen in game.
The idea of an action RPG/RTS is pretty awesome to me either way, but yeah, they really need to play up the swarm thing more. And they haven't talked much about MP yet, maybe all these drastic changes are just in the campaign and the multi will be more like the original.
By mono at 12:17 AM ON 08/23/08
By Tom Chick at 2:46 AM ON 08/23/08
Ahh, now that's more like it! Thanks, mono.
Still: I hope that isn't something mocked up, because there's nothing like that on show in the trailer. Maybe they're still optimizing the engine and aren't ready to show a full Tyranid attack in action yet? At any rate, I'm glad to see that screen and I hope I end up being dead wrong with my reservations.
By malkav11 at 3:00 AM ON 08/23/08
The more RPG the better, far as I'm concerned. I mean, yeah, I like RTSes, but I'm an RPG man at heart and a 40K RPG...be still my heart.
By Talorc at 11:36 AM ON 08/23/08
I always though that when they said the "technology" couldn't do tyranids right, they were talking about something other than the graphics engine and just showing a lot of models on screen at once.
I believe Tyranid armies play very differently in WH40K - they are certainly VERY melee focused, and the combat resolution part of the technology on Dawn of War made that very melee focus impractical.
By I BEAT U ALL U SMELL at 8:26 AM ON 12/15/08
tyranids r well gd and kill u all, NEED MORE! NEED LIKE 300!¬!!!!!!!! THIS IS SPARTA!
By AlexSledge at 12:27 PM ON 01/12/09
My tabletop Tyranids army consists of over 120 Termagants alone (lets not get into the PITA it is to move those around), if they can't handle minor swarms of that "skirmish" size, I don't have any great hope for the game as an RTS.
That being said, I can't say I'd be against an 40k universe action/rpg, but that's not what Dawn of War should become (create a new franchise).
AlexSledge:
My tabletop Tyranids army consists of over 120 Termagants alone (lets not get into the PITA it is to move those aro...More »